Live From New York: It's the Term Limits Fight

The vote is over, but you can stay involved in the fight at ItsOurDecision.org.

Maybe someday people will look back at "The Great Term Limits Vote" -- or maybe it will be completely forgotten. We have no idea. But in the chance that it does become a memorable moment, you have a ringside seat.

I'm at City Hall, in the Council chambers (photos coming soon) to watch as 51 City Council members decide to go along with a plan by the Mayor to extend their own and his terms of office.

The background: in the 90s, New Yorkers twice voted by popular referendum to impose limits of 2 terms. Mayor Bloomberg -- reminding us that rich people don't like when other people tell them what they can or can't do -- wants to run for a third term. His popularity probably could have swayed the public to support his quest through a new referendum -- but rich people don't like to follow process or convince others. So he is trying to railroad it through City Council.

The Speaker, Christine Quinn, is going along with him. And now it's a question of whether 26 Council Members will say no.

Yesterday, three of the undecided Council Members -- Gale Brewer, David Yassky and Alan Gerson -- proposed an amendment, that this law would not take effect unless and until it also passed a popular referendum. Opponents to the Mayor's plan are willing to support this idea as it will still give the public a say. The Mayor's supporters seem to be against any public involvement. But that vote did change the scenario.

And there are still a few undeclared. Are they feeling pressure from their constituents? Having their arms twisted by the Mayor and Speaker (rumors swirl of having committee chair posts stripped over disloyalty)?

In the front row of the balcony, next to Franz Hartl who is working with the Working Families Party -- leaders of the "It's Our Decision" campaign to defeat the Mayor's plan (as well as the "Vote Change Like You Mean It" push -- and we'll report anything that happens...which is nothing yet.

It's 5-to-1pm...every chair is already full and the Sargent-at-Arms has warned us that if we leave the chamber, there are others waiting for our seats.

...and this doesn't start for an hour.

1:23 - Opponents Expect Bill to Pass

Dick Dadey, head of the Citizens Union, arrived up in the balcony. His group has been vocal about this issue -- acknowledging the Council's right to take this vote, but questioning the appropriateness of it.

As he just told us, he suspects there will be 27 or 28 votes in favor of the Mayor's plan...not happy news coming from one of the captains in this fight.

He also says that anything can change; that lobbying is still happening; that votes may change on the floor.

(Video coming soon)

Not great news, nonetheless.

1:27 - Security is Strict-ish

When I left the balcony, I had to tell the Sargent-at-Arms I was leaving so he would let me back up. I had to tell him what I was doing. It was like getting a bathroom hall pass. As I came back and lurked by the stairs, he told me "No hanging out; head up if you want your seat."

It's less security-theater and more people-flow, but it was surprisingly intense. They seem to expect some clamor and controversy.

I did have the sense, though, that I probably could have talked my way past him. But maybe that's just my own self-aggrandized sense of chatty persuasion.

1:38 - ACORN in force
There are plenty of ACORN buttons and hats in the crowd. Not surprising -- they are an effective and valuable organization in NY, and they have made clear their opposition to the Mayor's plan.

Given all that the GOP has recently been saying about ACORN, you'd be surprised to realize when you talk to them that they are not, in fact, out to shred our country and democratic process. In fact, they fall squarely on the side of process.

There are some very sweet, sincere ACORN folks next to us. They are carrying on a conversation (I'm eavesdropping) with a man in a suit (not ACORN) who just declared: "If this were happening in Mississippi, the Justice Department would get involved."

I'm not sure I'd go that far...but there is a lot of concern about how this is getting rushed through.

The woman from ACORN just asked me (rhetorically): "Are you telling me that these City Council members are going to give away their power like this? They have families, parents who are immigrants -- they should know how much it matters to vote. How are they going to tell their children that their vote doesn't count."

That's the feeling up here. Council Members have started to arrive.

(Franz is taking photos, but the internet is real sloooooowwwww)

Everyone has a different vote count...and of course we're up here in the balcony, away from the lobbying.

1:58 - Chamber is Filling

About half the Council Members are wandering around. Nobody looks particularly elated or deflated. Maybe they don't know yet

Everyone says it's uncustomary to be so uncertain about a vote.

The downstairs is fulling with local reporters, lots of cameras, overflowing with staff. The balcony is not overflowing. They regulate the crowd very carefully (probably firecode). When the Sargent-at-Arms announced "The balcony is packed," we all looked around and laughed. People could be sitting on stairs, standing in back, but they are not allowed. There are angry people who want to be in here and can't be.

It's also a very diverse crowd -- reflective of New York City. All ages, all colors, all attire up here in the peanut gallery.

2:15 - About to begin

Announcements tell us to turn off cel phone ringers.

Somebody heard there may not be a vote for a couple hours; I have no idea what authority she was speaking on. But we are about to begin.

Bill de Blasio, one of the generals against the Mayor's plan, is here -- but I can't tell what strategy he's working. Looks more like he's waiting.

And David Yassky, an author of the amendment, keeps chatting with Ramon Martinez, a deputy for Quinn (and a former boss of mine from Senator Clinton's office) -- is that a sign? Are they just being soical?

Quinn has entered the hall...smiling...

2:19 - Everyone has a tell

I'm not a good poker player, so I don't pretend to be able to read everyone's expressions, but:

Quinn is smiling right now.

Dominic Recchia, a feverish supporter of another term, is smiling too -- but he always swaggers a little.

Robert Jackson is studying his blackberry. Interpret as you will -- i think he's bored.

James Oddo, the Republican Leader and an opponent, has a serious look -- as though a brave face...maybe I'm just projecting.

Charles Barron looks like he's ready to pick a fight. But that's sort of his thing.

Dan Garodnik looks like a class President I'd like to vote for -- that's sort of his thing.

so...maybe not the most informative post of the afternoon...

2:25 - Pledge and Roll Call

Betsy Gotbaum gaveled us to order. She's the Public Advocate. We stood for the Pledge.

Now the Roll Call.

Here...here...here...then:

"Gale Brewer"

Response: "Unfortunately, here."

Gale is one of my favorite Council Members, dedicated and smart and intellectually curious. I wonder what we'll hear from her today.

2:30 - Controlling the Room

You get a sense of how the Speaker gets certain advantages, just in the way she controls the room. The Public Advocate may be the chair, but the Speaker stands up front while all the other Council Members sit...or if they walk, they go to outer aisles.

(Photo from camera phone -- sorry for blurriness)

The center aisle is blocked by several guards, and only the Speaker's deputies are roaming it. (This photo attempts to capture that.)

She owns the room, the flow. Her deputies do a good job making traffic move to their advantage.

2:33 - Quinn's Opening

Quinn is introducing it.

Her arguments:
- in tough times, we need good government
- New Yorkers deserve a choice, should be allowed to re-elect
- this isn't about repealing term limits, it's about extending it

There are hisses and catcalls from the balcony.

When Quinn says, "This isn't some backroom deal," a chorus wells up in the balcony.

When she said "It's about a third term instead of two terms" -- people murmured, almost in unison, "or 4, or 5, or 6."

2:37 - Laugh Line

"Opponents say we support this because we think we're indispensable...believe me, we don't think we're indispensable."

Laughter -- not intended by the Speaker -- ensued.

2:40 - The Yassky Amendment

David Yassky is respected by a number of friends I respect. I haven't followed his decisions closely (and I also know some Williamsburgers who are strongly opposed to him) -- but folks generally agree he's a smart guy.

He's speaking now about the amendment proposed by Brewer, Gerson and himself. The amendment would require a referendum to actually pass this resolution.

His argument:
- if you are against the Mayor's bill because you want to reflect voter will, support this referendum
- if you are against term limits, let the public decide
- if you are for the Mayor's bill and want to extend term limits (which Yassky himself favors), support this amendment or else we'll make New Yorkers more cynical about government.

And -- here's the fun kicker -- in these tough times (the Mayor and Speaker's argument), the government needs the public's trust and cooperation.

2:44 - Applause Line

Yassky: "We shouldn't lead by the polls, but in a world where 60-40 is a large margin, then 80-20 should make us think about reflecting the public's will" (or something like that)

Applause from the gallery. The sargent quiets us. A woman keeps waving her arms joyously.

Let's hope he lives up to that promise if the amendment goes down.

2:46 - Signs

In the gallery, being held up:

"No King Bloomberg"

"Vote No"

"When Christine Quinn opens her mouth Michael Bloomberg's words come out."

"Bloomberg's billions can't buy de Blasio" (she was just instructed to put that sign away for being "too big" -- only 8.5x11 allowed

"Bloomberg Blog: What's Wrong the Democracy...the Voters"

now she's being told she can't hand out signs, event though people want them and are asking for them.

2:49 - "Under His Watch"

Charles Barron just brought up Bloomberg. "It was under his watch we got into this economic mess; it was under his watch that he came in worth $5 billion, and is now worth $20 billion."

He then encouraged Bloomberg to follow Hugo Chavez's lead and listen to the people.

...now David Weprin is up. In the past, he's not been a favorite of mine because of his unnecessarily fear-mongering comments when Ahmadinejad spoke at Columbia...but he's totally right here -- good for you, Council Member!

He's also against term limits, but in favor of process -- and he notes that the second referendum in the 90s was very similar to the current proposal.

2:53 - What Happens When the Amendment Fails?

So, these speeches are great right now -- Alan Gerson, Council Member for and friend of The Tank for the past couple years, is up now supporting the amendment.

But it's not clear that the amendment will pass; in fact, some whispers up here are that it's going down.

And where do these voices go after? Do Yassky and Gerson -- who were undeclared -- vote no to the Mayor's plan and live up to their rhetoric?

That's right -- sorry, kids -- unless someone's rhetoric is so remarkable that it changes hearts right here on the floor, we're really just going through a pre-arranged dance...that will lead this amendment to fail.

2:57 - Tish James

Letitia James just gave a stirring statement on the legality issue. I'm no lawyer, but it sounded good. And she got applause up here.

There's a great woman who keeps cheering silently so she won't be hushed. I'm hoping to have some video of her soon.

3:05 - Quoting Lincoln

A Council Member I don't know just read the seal above the Chair's seat: "A Government of the People, By the People, For the People." How can anyone argue with a little Abe Lincoln?

Otherwise, we're hitting a "no new arguments" phase of the debate...we get it...and sadly, you don't get the sense that anyone's going to change their minds. I hope I'm surprised.

Ooh...and I am. He ended with: "Let your constituents reward you, don't reward yourself."

Good line.

3:15 - Gioia, Oh Boy-a

Eric Gioia has been great on issues of supporting voter registration in the past -- so he means it when he talks about getting people off the sidelines. (He started Voter Registration Day, for one.)

He just voiced his concern: nothing says "Stay on the sidelines" like the Council overturning a popular vote.

If this amendment fails, I hope he'll stay principled and vote against the Mayor's measure.

As a sidenote, pertaining to nothing, Gioia once lived on foodstamps for a week to demonstrate how difficult it is to eat healthy that way. I thought that was cool. Not surprising to learn, he's friends with Morton Spurlock.

3:19 - Voting on the Amendment!

After Koppell, staunch supporter of the Mayor's plan spoke, it went to vote.

That means it was a parade of pro-Amendment comments, one or two in opposition, just to usher it along.

Happening now...seemingly as predicted (Foster, an undecided, just voted against the amendment)

3:21 - No Votes

No votes -- on the Amendment -- are getting hisses up here. Lappin just voted No.

Sanders just abstained to groans.

Vacca just got hissed.

3:22 - Amendment Fails

22 affirmative, 28 negative.

Now we see who will stand up against the bill. Will those Yes votes on the Amendment stand strong?

Barron is up and speaking -- saying we need to check the Mayor. And that's what this vote represents.

3:24 - Race

Barron just pointed out that pre term limits, the Council was mostly white. Now it's 50% people of color. He's telling black and Latino members who say Yes to the Mayor to be ashamed.

Most of these members are only here because of term limits...

The guards are having trouble keeping folks quiet. One woman just got "a warning."

3:30 - Enraging the voters...

"Enraging the voters is not a way to engage them in this coming fiscal crisis."

3:31 - Not stand on ceremony

Bill de Blasio just said he's not going to respect civility. That's kind of awesome.

He just said George Orwell would have loved the arguments made by the Mayor and Speaker.

He calls this "stealing like a thief in the night the shape of our democracy."

Sonded like he was trying to agitate.

3:32 - Yassky folds

Yassky just rose in support of the bill after his amendment failed. He folds. So now he just lost that half of my friends who had championed him.

3:33 - I got hushed for laughing

Yassky says he has thought it through and "A twelve year term limit is much better than an eight year limit."

I suppose if it's your job, that's true.

I thought it was funny enough and I laughed out loud. I mean at -- not with -- him.

Gotbaum just had to hush Yassky. "But, Madame, I only have one paragraph left." "David, I have to maintain time limits."

Not a proud day for him. Scolded. And shamed.

3:36 - I wish I had video of Letitia James

She just railed against those who say this is about giving voters "choice." When you have an incumbent whose aides brag of $80 million in a campaign warchest, as she argues, that "obliterates choice."

Then something weird happened with Lew Fidler. Called on, but didn't want to speak. Not clear what that was about.

3:40 - One of the dumber arguments

Vacca just complained that until two weeks ago, his office got calls about police issues. Then he started getting flooded with calls, from both sides, about term limits. Therefore, he thinks it's time this debate ends.

What? Because his constituents care about an issue, they distract him from what constituents care about?

He then quoted his mother's fear: "Jimmy, you mean I won't be able to vote for who I want?"

Lame-o.

3:44 - Avella Rising

"Why did they wait for now?" Tony Avella exlaimed. And he's right -- if the Council Members wanted this, why did they vote -- as he claims, so they could argue that there isn't enough time for a referendum.

He then said he thought they all should be voted out.

Cheers from the balcony; gavel; threats of being removed.

Gotbaum: "Are you finished, Council Member?"
Avella: "I think I'm completely finished."

3:46 - Blowhard

Recchia just praised the Council for getting work going on redevelopment of Coney Island. "But if I can't be on Council, how will I know that the work will get done?"

Um...by ensuring other capable people are elected; by remaining involved in your community; by checking your ego at the door...

He then tried quoting Lincoln too, urging people not to swap horses mid-stream. Which is why I favor another term of Bush.

I was wrong before: quoting Lincoln is not always a winning idea.

3:50 A real argument

I've now seen Koppell speak twice on this issue -- Tuesday night at a forum, and today. And while I totally disagree with him...I respect his argument. He lays out that the law does provide for several ways to amend term limits and gives the Council the right to do so; he notes how little we decide by referendum in this city; he makes a case for representative democracy.

I think he's making an honest argument about this.

That said, the point de Blasio hammered him on during Tuesday's debate was the illegitimate process by which this is being rushed through: backroom deals, limited public comment.

With these two minute statements, there's no debate...no back-and-forth...I'd like to hear Koppell respond more to those issues. I think he'd have trouble.

3:59 - Debate Over

Alan Gerson gave the final comment. Disappointing. He made an interesting argument: now that a referendum has been shut down, he -- as a legislator -- has two choices: vote for or vote against extending term limits. He can't choose something that isn't an option.

I don't buy it. And I don't like that he brought up the "these are tough times" argument. There have been other tough times that we've found our way through. It's a really weak argument.

Now the vote is happening. Roll call.

Barron is explaining his vote: "To my colleague, Dominic Recchia, we got to prioritize the will of the people over the fish of your aquarium."

He then thanked the people for attending, and we applauded ourselves.

4:03 - Brewer...

She's explaining her vote -- didn't speak in the debate...

4:04 - Brewer's dilemma

She gave a long-ish comment. She's opposed to limits, but thinks there needs to be a fuller debate, and thinks this approach was lousy, and is not immune to attacks of hypocrisy.

She's speaking over her time -- ignoring Gotbaum. She keeps going.

She thinks 12 is better than 8. But she thinks she has to listen to her constituents.

Gale votes No.
Thank you, Gale.

4:08 - One More Note on Gale

I loved Gale's final comment, nearly lost in the gavel clatter: "I am no profile in courage." She's not holding herself up as some exemplary judge in this matter. She was honest about her conflict. And unlike some of the other extremes -- on both sides -- she recognizes, with some humility, her place in a larger landscape.

Compared to Council Members who think they are needed by their constituents, Brewer is a profile in modesty.

And the thing is that she's a great Council Member; and loves being a Council Member. She'll probably, after all this, get re-elected.

4:12 - It passes

Tish James is speaking now. But the vote is basically over. (Unless I'm really off in my count, but my neighbor here is keeping a checklist on a Council scorecard.)

I'll be offline after this, hearing what's being said outside: especially, what's the next step?

Will provide some updates when I'm back online.

James just got applause.

4:14 - One surprise

Lappin just voted No. I don't think we expected that. Not sure where the count stands, but I still think we're over.

Miguel Martinez just said, "If my constituents don't like the way I voted, they'll vote me out." Peanut Gallery shouted back: "Yes, we will!"

It's note-worthy, and maybe not surprising: up here, all the exclamations are against the Mayor's plan. Down there, the Council is for the plan.

4:33 - West Wing
James Oddo, the Republican Leader (of the 3 GOP members out of 51) just rose, movingly explained his No vote, and quoted West Wing. What a world.

The vote is over, but you can stay involved in the fight at ItsOurDecision.org.